Christian Maturity with Dr. Princess Briggs

In this episode, Kevin and Dr. Princess Briggs explore Christian growth, church diversity, and overcoming cultural and racial barriers within faith communities. They share personal stories, biblical insights, and practical advice for spiritual maturity and unity in Christ.

Transcript

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Kevin (00:01.186)
What's up beyond the Benediction Family? It's Kevin back again, continuing the series on Christian growth and Christian maturity. And I have a special guest for my next episode in the series. This is my sister from another Mr. She's been on the episode, the show before, and we'll have her on again. But I want to bring my sister, Dr. Princess Briggs. She's going to be going to talk about growing as a Christian just in church, how that how that flows through church.

Even we we're gonna even talk about race a little bit. We're gonna get in. We're gonna dig in. We'll talk about it. So my sisters, tell us a little bit. I know you've been on for a what once before, but it's been a while, they've probably forgotten just how great you are. So give them a little brief you know introduction of who you are and just tell us a little bit about yourself.

Princess (00:46.896)
So thank you for having me on again. This has been is always a lot of fun digging into scripture and digging into what it means to be a Christian and just growing in my my walk and in all of the things. It's just an a great time every time. So some of you may remember me from previous previous episodes, but I am princess. Yes, that's my real name. I always get that question. And

Kevin (01:11.618)
Yeah.

Princess (01:14.778)
Professionally, I am an educator. I have been in the education field seemingly since birth. I have both an older and a younger brother who had some challenges in school. my younger brother has since passed away, but I do still have my older brother, thank God, and they had learning challenges and God just placed me, sandwiched me.

right in between a younger sibling and an older sibling with learning difficulties. So learning has always been teaching and learning has always been a part of my life. So professionally, I went to school, went to college, earned my all of my degrees are in education, specifically special education. And how that actually spills over into my spiritual life is I was always curious about the Bible, obviously when I was in going to church and in

Sunday school and Bible study and things like that. And I always just wanted to know more, no more, no more. And I had the opportunity to speak in a class here or there. And I really enjoyed it. And actually, the my Sunday school teacher actually recommended that I become a Sunday school teacher. I was shocked. I was like, Me, absolutely not. I fought it, fought it, fought it. No, I am not doing it. I can't do that. I can't do it.

And with some encouragement from him as well as others, Minister Toomer at the time, Minister Toomer, encouraged me, encouraged me to go ahead and to pursue that. And one thing that I must say is in trying to teach, you learn a lot. So God in his infinite wisdom, because he knew I was so curious about the Bible and curious about and just wanted to learn more, put me in a position where I had to

Kevin (02:39.917)
Who's that?

Princess (03:02.105)
teach because in order to teach you have to first know what you're talking about. So I had to learn. So that satisfied my desire to learn more of scripture because then I had to go and teach it. And that's where I am.

Kevin (03:15.533)
Excellent, excellent. And so just the further background, like you mentioned, we both met each other at the same church. We assume the same church at the same time. I was the youth pastor of the time. And her her son now who's who's grown, grown now, you know, aging, aging us, right? Aging us now, but I was the youth pastor when when he was there. And you know, we grew you know, became friends and everything from there. And of course, our lives took us in divergent paths.

Princess (03:30.863)
Wrong wrong.

Kevin (03:43.134)
but then it God and his infant with us, we went totally in different directions, but God we w brought us right back together through through some without going too deep, we have to shade that for another show. you know, through some supernatural kind of way, if you think about it. but so when I say this is my sister, that's not like the hyperbole she really is. so but now what I want to talk about in this episode, of course. let me say this. I asked this question the last time it was on, but it was so long ago, I think it's good it's it bears to be repeated.

Princess (03:56.131)
Yes.

Kevin (04:12.609)
Tell me something. It could be as as broad as you want to. Something now that you think that you know now or believe now about Christianity that maybe you didn't before or that's a change. Like, you know what? I used to believe this, but now over time through growth and experience and built walking with the Lord, I used to believe this, but now I believe.

Princess (04:38.969)
Wow. It's funny that you ask that because the last time I answered this question, I was not at the church that I'm currently attending now. and because I am now at this new church, I have a different answer to this very same question. And one of the things that I used to think that I don't think anymore is.

And I don't want to get too much into it because I know we're gonna talk about this later on in the episode, but one of the things that I used to think is that your ethnicity or your your your cultural background, I thought that it played a deeper role than it actually does. And in some respects it does. In some respects, you know that your culture, your background does have a a hand in

your growth, your walks, on and so forth. But before I came to this particular church that I'm in, I used to think that it had more of an impact. But what I found now is that people are people. Whether you are green, purple, orange, whether you come from this side of the track or that side of the track, people are people and when I tell you people be people in, let me tell you, it it doesn't really matter

Kevin (05:49.357)
Yeah.

Kevin (06:00.737)
Mm.

Princess (06:04.643)
you know what type of setting you're in, the same issues that you find at church X, you're gonna find some of those some of those same issues at church Y, even though the people may be seemingly different. You have some of the same issues. So what I used to think is, it's generally, you know, it's gonna be so much different, whatever. People are people, regardless of the culture.

Kevin (06:29.365)
Absolutely. And then you know the thing is, we we have a lot of obviously conversations offline and trust me, we we we we I you know I know that firsthand. That that that that cliche people be people in boy, whoever came with that phrase, they was preaching. because no lies detected at all. so now again, we both kind of came for the church and and just against again some further background, both of us came from the same church. The church we came from was the predominantly black church.

Princess (06:36.043)
We go deep. We go deep.

Princess (06:42.285)
Yeah. Yes, yes. At all.

Kevin (06:59.261)
And now both of us, again, God's infinite wisdom brought us to back together and we both diverged into almost a similar path. And then now both of us are members of churches that are not per you know, consist or more predominantly black. and a lot of times, like you mentioned, people look at you who are off the African American community, look at you strange because you don't go to a black church. so just what is something that you that you learn?

Princess (07:23.033)
Mm-hmm.

Kevin (07:28.449)
Going to a church that's not from your background that pleasantly surprised.

Princess (07:35.01)
One of the things that pleasantly surprised me, and just you know, to make it clear, although I'm not I'm not a member of an African American church, my church predominantly now is Hispanic. And I did not attend I did not become a member of that church because they are a Hispanic church or because they are a different ethnicity. that is literally the church that God directed me to. I wasn't in search of a church that was a different.

nationality than mine. I wasn't in search of a church that had a different culture. I I was just in search of learning more about Christ and wanting to be on the path that He wanted me to be on as opposed to the path that I was more comfortable with or the path that I thought I should be on. I wanted to focus solely on, okay, Lord, what do you want me to do? And this church is where he directed me. And as a matter of fact, when I and you and I had

these conversations. But when I first went, I went because I was invited and I was like, okay, okay, this is great, you know. And I listened, of course, to the message and it was solid. I must say the message was solid. However, I'm sitting there and I really do feel like a fish out of water. Like I'm looking around and it's like nobody there looks like me. And then

You know that you know how you find that one black person way off in the corner. It's like my eyes kind of like, okay, okay. But just had never been in that type of environment with so many people who are so different from me. However, one of the things that pleasantly, pleasantly surprised me is how comfortable I would feel. It is strange because I felt comfortable and uncomfortable at the same time. Let me explain that.

I felt uncomfortable because of my cultural background and because I look different and I behaved differently than the people who I was sitting in front sitting around. However, the strange thing is I felt comfortable because that spiritual part of me immediately connected to what was going on there. So I felt at home spiritually, although I felt out of place physically. You know what I mean?

Princess (09:58.4)
So that was the the the thing that was different that pleasantly surprised me is that I really felt at home in a place that was so different from what I was used to.

Kevin (10:10.861)
That's good. Very well said. you know, it's funny because, you know, my my my transition, if you want to call it that, was was similar yet different. you know, you know, again, this is not strange to you, but for me, I I was look I wasn't even looking for I was looking for a church, but I wasn't. But actually mine was slightly different than you because I was actually looking for something with I was intentionally looking for a church, not necessarily not black.

I was looking for a church that was diverse, a church that could had all nationality. I didn't want to go to just a black church or just a white church or just a black church. I want to go to a church that all ethnicities were represented. And what's funny is when I first came here to where I am, that granted there's not a lot of people of color, but there's a cross section of different races here. And it that surprised me. And it's like you said, when I first came here my first time, I had no intentions of coming back.

Because I was like, okay, this is right, but this ain't this ain't it, you know, because again, you know the story. so, but it's funny how God's ways can totally change how change what we think. We think this is what I I'm used to, this is what I should want, and then God can introduce something that's scary. But then once you get past that initial trepidation, you realize, wait a minute, this ultimately is the place I need to be. so that's the now, why do you think?

let's dig into this. Why do you think there's such a hesitation for people, most specifically African Americans, to have it be open-minded about going to church? Is it merely just a cultural thing? Or do you think there are other things at play that says well a lot of people and let's maybe expand a little bit further because it goes both ways? There are sometimes people who are people died of color.

who don't feel comfortable going to black churches. Like why do you think that stigma in twenty twenty six, why do you think that stigma still remains?

Princess (12:20.825)
Hold on, hold on. Can you hear me? I'm so sorry. Right. So it froze and then it stopped and then it froze. And right in the middle of your question, I couldn't hear the end part of your question. So this part is gonna have to be edited. I am so sorry. I don't know why it's doing that all of a sudden. And that's one of the reasons why I didn't get my laptop because I didn't want it to do that. All right, can you repeat the question? I'm sorry.

Kevin (12:22.945)
Yeah, I mean sometimes it slows down, don't worry about

Kevin (12:33.901)
Okay. Okay. It's okay. Okay.

Kevin (12:43.929)
that's okay. Yeah, I repeat the question. Editing works. We could so my question was I I I summarize it more succinctly. Why do you think there's a sigma for people of one particular culture or race against going to a church of a different culture? In 2026, with everything going on in terms of you know racial policies, you would think at this point we're gonna-that's a hurdle we should have gotten past. But why do you think that?

Hesitation still exists from one side forward.

Princess (13:16.633)
So why is there a stigma from one culture or any culture that is with going to church with folks of a different culture?

Kevin (13:21.666)
Mm-hmm.

Princess (13:27.425)
Hmm, I think just the ultimate answer to that question, overarching answer to that question, is the enemy. I think that that is a way for him to continue to try to divide us, divide and conquer, you know. you often speak of, you know, certain things in different contexts, but you often speak of a low-hanging fruit.

And I think that our cultural differences where the enemy is concerned is low-hanging fruit. It's like I know if I want to start something, if I want to throw something in there, if I want to throw a monkey wrench in their plans, do something where culture or race or ethnicity is concerned. So if he can divide us, let me divide on something that is obvious. Your skin color, your hair texture, the language that you speak, so on and so forth. And then to make it

So then to make it so to make it bigger than what it actually is. You know how sometimes folks if they want to if they wanna knock you off, if they wanna deter you from something, they will try to make something bigger than what it actually is. So instead of you looking at the problem for what it is, you look at the hugness of the problem. You're like, this is a huge problem when it's really not that big of a deal in the beginning.

So I think the ultimate reason is because this is something, these are obvious things that separate us, the way we look. So the way we speak, the way we interact, it's obvious. So I think that the enemy uses that to divide us because if we were to get it together and if we were all to get on the same page, and if we were to all really join forces.

We will be a force to be reckoned with and he doesn't want that to happen. So it's just a matter of keeping us divided.

Kevin (15:20.909)
Wow, that's a good, that's a great act. I love that. And it reminds me of the scripture in when in Genesis, when the nations were dealing with power battle. And God said if they continue to do this together, then nothing would be impossible for them. So even God saw how the power of agreement, even in agreement in a sense of doing something that's not of God. So to your point.

Princess (15:31.085)
Yeah, I was just thinking the same thing. Yep.

Princess (15:44.644)
Right.

Kevin (15:45.77)
Imagine if there's a common ground for people to do the thing that God actually does approve of in sanity. so I I I love that answer. You're right, because the enemy ultimately, like I know I can phrase I give all the time, you know, racism is merely a branch on the tree of evil. And the tree of evil is the whole thing insane is the seed, inflant seed. The tree is evil, but racism is just one word. If he can use that to get to to kind of get what he wants to get done done.

that's part of it. And if we can't ignore, of course, obviously, even though it's twenty twenty-six, historic history of racism in this country because they maybe some people grow up and they're, you know, they grow around, they be around people and they never see a person of color. They're not around people of color. And I think sometimes that's a bigger detriment too. The enemy t capitalizes and you just don't know what to say around people. Cause sometimes what I think you and I've had these conversations offline.

The idea is that just because someone is of a different color, they're like it's like they're a different person. We still are the same people. We like the same a lot of the same things. We feel the same way you do. So a lot of time it's just kind of taking down the misnomers that people have about race. One of the things again we talk about a lot for me, especially being being a black person, being a black male, when I go in the spaces, Christian spaces, I try to go above envy and try to make sure.

Princess (16:50.177)
Right. Right.

Kevin (17:10.679)
That I make sure I sound very intelligent. I pronounce every syllable. Enunciate. And but but you know, and it's like, okay, because unfortunately the stigma is there. And then some of the things that that happens when we feel people of different culture. But that that's flipping though. what? What about how do you think it would go over? We've had this experience somewhat at our previous

Princess (17:17.967)
Nun C eight.

Kevin (17:41.014)
If a person of a different race came into a dominant black folks. Like, how do you why do you think that trepidation is there? Because you just we look at it from our perspective. Where the you know, I used to I heard this phrase many, many years ago. Where's a the chocolate chip in a bowl of vanilla ice cream? You know, we're only once. Well now, what if it's the other way around? When that person is the vanilla chip in the chocolate of ice cream.

Princess (18:12.355)
You know what? And it's funny because I've often thought about that. I've thought about, you know, what other people feel like or have felt when they have come into, you know, the predominantly black church and that black experience and what that's all about and how they feel. And just listen to people online who have said, you know, white guy saying, I visited a black church today, or somebody saying, Hey, I visited a church and

Kevin (18:39.498)
Mm-hmm.

Princess (18:42.073)
For the most part, it seems like their experience is very positive. However, however, even with that being said, one of the things that b I don't want to say bother me, but I'm gonna say bothers me. One of the things that bothers me is that whenever I do hear people of a different culture speak about their experience in black church, it's typically something along the lines of they had great music.

They sing great songs, the music was this, the pastor was, you know, loud and very demonstrative and very emotional. And that's generally what you hear when other races talk about the black church. And that I have a problem with. I don't because that's not why we're s supposed to be going to church, you know, so

Kevin (19:21.153)
Charismatic.

Princess (19:40.918)
Outside of the singing and the dancing and the the the the all the praise and worship and all the things and all the bells and whistles, outside of that, did you leave better equipped spiritually than you were when you first got there? And if you cannot say that to be true, then what do you mean you had a good time at the black church?

Kevin (20:06.881)
point. And I we even take a step take it a step further and go into the maturity part across the board. And I think you and I are are kind of assimilating this. Like, you know, we had our reasons why we we both left that particular church. But I think I don't want to speak for you, but I think based on our conversation, some of the churches, and this is not all black churches, but to your point, the the the histrionics and the in the character charisma of the pastor and the praise and the dancing and the singing, a lot of times what goes missing is the actual doctrinal part.

part where, okay, here's the meat. We got a lot of got a lot of sizzle, but not a lot of steak. And then I think you and I, I think we both agree we got to a point to where, okay, I I I mean that's cool. I mean, but okay, I'm trying to learn. I'm trying to grow as a Christian. And I think a lot of times, to your point, the perception is that church, the black church, is great for the experience. But then the other side is great for growth. And I think sometimes, but then it's a misnomer too, because

Princess (20:41.731)
Mm-hmm.

Kevin (21:06.805)
You need both. You need both because you can't just be so scholarly, but then the spiritual aspect of getting the relational part of knowing Christ is absent. And then vice versa. You can't be so you know dealing with experiential that I had an experience, but then there's no growth. There's not you're not challenged, you're not, you know, pushed to see that there's more that God expects from you, of you. so

So that brings me to, you know, let's get dig into this as well. so why do you think that is the case? For where why, and let's let's take the race part out there, and we're talking about just group. Why do you think that's such an issue for most churches? Because you go online, social media, other places, and you see the rhetoric, you see the TikTok videos, and it's like every time you turn around, this church is doing some foolishness.

Why have it's why is the perception that we've gone so far away from just truth that we feel like we gotta entertain more so than

Princess (22:16.365)
I'm sorry, wait a minute. This is not working. my goodness. Why is it doing this?

Princess (22:25.549)
And why does this say seven minutes left, eight minutes left? What is happening here? Please keep Riverside open until your recording is fully uploaded.

Kevin (22:40.513)
Yeah, that means as long as you don't close it out, that means when we're done, don't close it out because it has to upload on the cloud.

Princess (22:43.841)
Mm-hmm. Well why does it keep like it'll go it keeps buffering and I'm getting every other I'm getting small patches of what you're saying missing. Why is it doing this to me?

Kevin (23:00.117)
Let me repeat the question. We didn't it's okay.

Princess (23:01.505)
I don't underst because I'm not even on my laptop, which is why I didn't get on my laptop. I got on a dedicated and this is plugged into see it just did it again. It keeps saying trying to connect, trying to connect. But the internet is fine. Like it's fine. I'm not even on a Wi-Fi. So what is the problem here?

Princess (23:26.713)
See, I know it's not me, because I'm not on I'm not home and I'm not on my laptop. So i I don't I don't know. This is it's stable. Make sure you're make sure you have stable internet connection. Say it again.

Kevin (23:32.939)
Maybe something with the software. 'Cause I'm looking at on my end, like the the up

I say it may be something with the software because I'm looking on my the studio here. It says my connection part, it says ninety nine percent. Yours says seventy four percent, seventy three percent. So something let me push on the stuff. So

Princess (23:48.942)
Right.

Kevin (23:55.309)
What is it

Kevin (23:58.817)
So many things.

Kevin (24:06.761)
Well I mean up until that part it seemed like we were doing okay.

Princess (24:18.019)
Make sure that your internet is stable. Of course it's stable. I'm like at

I don't know. This is okay, Lord. Lord, help this thing go through.

Princess (24:38.593)
Okay, let's just continue. I'm gonna do the best I can. Let's just continue. See like you're frozen now. Okay, go ahead.

Kevin (24:40.225)
Yeah. Okay.

Kevin (24:46.935)
Sometimes I'll say this. Sometimes if it freezes, sometimes it's because it's loading as it's recording. So sometimes it's going to buffer like that. So sometimes just push through it. Just push through it. because it did it with you a couple of times, but I know that because the system works where it's saving it as it's recording at the same time. So sometimes it's buffer. Like right now, you sick, but but I know that's why it's doing it. Because you were still for a second.

Princess (24:53.155)
Mm-hmm.

Princess (24:57.325)
Okay.

Princess (25:10.957)
But see the thing about it is when when when that happens, whatever you're saying, I don't hear. So like when you see me frozen, it's because I'm not hearing anything that you're saying. So if you're asking me a question, I can't get the full question because this thing is acting fool.

Kevin (25:17.377)
You don't hear? No.

Kevin (25:26.999)
Okay. So what I do is I monitor. If it if you freeze up, I'll rephrase the question. As long as we can get around it. Okay. now I'm trying to remember what a question was.

Princess (25:31.777)
Okay. This time Okay.

Princess (25:38.201)
Their question was something about cause you said take race out of it and it was something about growth.

Kevin (25:43.724)
Okay, yes, I remember that. Okay. So now, if we take race out of it, just talking about because obviously the overarching thing for the episode is maturity. why do you think regardless of church, because we see this in churches regardless of race, where there's a preponderance of just entertaining. There's a preponderance of, you know, people just entertaining people and trying to just likes and bells and whistles at at the expense of teaching and doctrine.

Princess (26:12.644)
Mm-hmm.

Kevin (26:13.131)
Why do you think we've cascaded so far in that direction?

Princess (26:20.377)
That's a loaded question, but a very good question. And there is no one answer. There, to me, there are so many reasons why we have diverted from what the Bible tells us to do. This is the way you're supposed to do it. I think one of the main reasons is because we think we know better than God, simply put.

We know how this thing works. We know how to get butts in the seat. We know how to make people come. We it's us, you know, we it's us in our arrogance and it's us in our just just our nature of thinking that we know it all, we have it all, our self righteousness. And instead of us following and doing what the word tells us to do, we think we know better. Why? Because we see the people in the seats.

We see that when I did this particular sermon or when we had this particular program or when this person came to guest preach or whatever, we had X amount of people in the seats. But when we did this thing over here, there was nobody. So since we see that and it makes sense to us, we feel like that's what we're supposed to do because we think we know better than God, you know? And of course, most I'm sure and I hope that most pastors aren't doing this.

at a conscious level, like willingly, you know, just going against what God says do. But it's in our nature to to think that we have all the answers and that we know what we're doing. That's one thing. I think another thing too is competition. We even saw that way back in the Bible days when Paul had to go back and like tell these churches, like there's no, we're not competing. You know, there's no just because that church down the street

has X amount of members in the church in the next county has X amount of numbers, it doesn't mean that you have to outmember all the other churches. you got a hundred, well I'm gonna have 150. you got a thousand, I'm gonna have two thousand. And I think that competition again I think created f for wrong reasons, but I think that competition, you know, makes us do things to to get people in the door. And then I also think that another thing too is

Princess (28:45.667)
Because we like to be entertained. We just peep human nature, we like to be entertained. We like and then when the people in the pulpit see the the smiles and the laughter and they see on our faces and the glow and the whole thing, we want, you know, more of that, you know, and then we want to be entertained, they want to entertain us in this reciprocal. So it's like, let me give the people what they want to hear. And then when we're hearing what we want to hear, we in turn

give the pastors what they want because we're there, we're coming, we're tithing, we're giving, we're doing all the things. So I think it's no one answer, one one size fits all answer to that question. I think there are layers, but I think ultimately it speaks to our our flesh and it speaks to the human part of us and we are negating the spiritual part and we're negating what

the Bible lays out and specifically tells us what to do.

Kevin (29:48.312)
Hmm, that's good. That's good. I and I agree wholeheartedly. and as you were saying that, you already know the Bible nerd maybe maybe think you're going to scripture. It was Acts chapter 20, very famous scripture. and in verse 29, this is what Paul says. This I know that after I leave, savage wolves will come in among you and would not spare the flock, even from your own number.

Princess (29:57.136)
Go on scripture. Go on scripture. Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Kevin (30:17.835)
Men will arise and distort the truth in order to draw away disciples after them. So we're seeing this over almost 2,000 years ago still playing because as your point, as you said so well, you're still dealing with people in our skin and our sin and our proclivities and the things we want. And we all at times desire the things we want more than the things of God. And that doesn't stop because we come together and have a church service. And unfortunately, you mentioned.

Princess (30:23.951)
Mm.

Kevin (30:46.081)
That you say hopefully that there are not pastors who are doing this kind of thing purposefully. but unfortunately, scripture bears it out, there are some that are. There are some that that are in positions because they just want to be popular and they want to have power and they want to have control. Now I'll say this too. That falls at the feet of the church because you're allowing these people to have these positions who maybe should not be.

Princess (31:06.999)
Mm.

Princess (31:12.452)
Right.

Kevin (31:13.373)
Are we being diligent in even seeking God? Should this be the man that we have to lead us? Are we really scrutinizing their lives to see this is the a person that God wants to shepherd us? Or are we just saying, as you said so well, this person knows how to fill the seats? This is our God. Because when he preaches, when he sings, when he teaches, the people come and let's keep it above.

Princess (31:30.915)
Right. Right.

Kevin (31:39.874)
The bucks come. You know, per you know wordplay included intentionally. So now the you know, butts in the seats means dollars in the post. So we gotta make sure we understand too that just because someone, I was talking to a friend of mine about this the other day, just because a person's in the building doesn't mean they're in the body. So sometimes their motives are not pure. So I think that is definitely a reason why. And then I'll say this too.

Princess (31:44.173)
Right. Exactly. Exactly.

Princess (32:02.137)
Right.

Kevin (32:09.409)
You know, k piggyback on what you said about the flesh part. Let's keep it real here. Reading the Bible ain't attractive. Actually sitting down and saying, I'm gonna read this book, that ain't that's that well the for me is fun. But for a lot of people, you is fun. But for lot of people, they don't see that as fun. You just preach it, you tell me what it says and give me a good song. Okay, now I got it.

Princess (32:22.447)
Read, right?

Princess (32:27.257)
Right.

Princess (32:37.708)
Uh-huh.

Kevin (32:38.039)
Versus let me sit down and be disciplined. And look at the word. Discipline is part of being a disciple. You have to be disciplined. But of course, people don't want it. And the church is also not pushing it. So I think to your point, I'm just adding on to what you're saying, because you're right, it's not a one size fits all thing. But these are a bunch of different reasons for why churches aren't pushing the truth. And why we have so many so-called Christians misrepresenting Christ.

So when they go out into the world, people say, that's how Christians are? I'm good. See, that's why I don't go to church now, because them hypocritical Christians.

Princess (33:21.379)
Yep. And I would I I would also say this, bro. I would add that also

I think fear has something to do with it. And when I say fear, you know, if if if I'm if I have this particular church and I want this church to grow, and if I feel like if I do it this way or that way, people are not gonna come. It's a fear that may set in me like, I may lose membership. My members may go to this other church down down the street because they have the bells and the whistles. So my

flock may diminish, you know, my people may not come. And it's a fear because now the seats aren't filled and I can't get, you know, the the the church can't sustain itself and how's it going to pay its bills and so on and so forth. So then the fear, you know, starts to to to creep in and and and

What what's gonna happen if I lose X amount of members or the trajectory? We looked at our numbers over the last five years and we see a steady decline. And if we don't do something immediately, eventually we won't have, you know, and then the all the things, all and then of course the enemy is playing on that and so on and so forth. But perhaps, thinking about Gideon, perhaps God may be diminishing your numbers for a specific reason.

You know, maybe God is, maybe your numbers are diminishing, but are you doing what you need to do? Because perhaps God is diminishing your f numbers, your people, your flock for a specific purpose. And that purpose might not align to what you want to do. Because are you doing it for the right reason? So we have to also look at that as well. And then as far as the parishioners are concerned, I think that.

Princess (35:09.527)
One of the reasons is because we want to find a church that fits our definition of the God that we want to serve. As opposed to the God of the Bible, I don't want to serve that type of God. I want to serve a God that is going to get me out of my mess every single time. I want a God that will close his eyes and overlook my foolishness.

Kevin (35:17.537)
Good. Yeah.

Princess (35:33.774)
You know, because we say things like, you know, God knows my heart, or you know, we'll say things like, I had to lay my religion aside and cuss them out and da da da. We say all the things, and we want to serve a God that will ignore that part of us and not make us change. We want to serve the type of God that is going to allow us to be just who we want to be. And then when it comes the when it comes time for him to show up.

For things that I can't handle, then you can come and you can help me out of this situation. But when I don't need you, when everything is good and I don't need you, I want you to stay over there on the shelf. But when I need you to come and and and deal with me or help me out or get me out of something, then I want to pull you off the shelf. And we search for pastors and organizations and churches that are gonna feed that part of us that want that that that help us search out the kind of God that.

we want as opposed to the God of the Bible.

Kevin (36:36.365)
Very well said. Love it. Love it. Love it. And I think also the part you mentioned about the churches and the Gideon, which is a great illustration by shrinking the congregation. Let me take it step further. And this is the part that's gonna be humbling for a lot of pastors and preachers who may watch this. Maybe God, it could be a case of humbling, could also be a case of reality. That maybe you ain't supposed to be a pastor. Maybe that's why your congregation isn't responding. Maybe that's why your numbers are dwindling.

Princess (36:57.369)
Mm-hmm.

Ooh, wow.

Princess (37:04.173)
Mm-hmm.

Kevin (37:06.219)
Because maybe God didn't call you in the first place, and you decided that you want to be a pastor. And then maybe, and then even if you were, we see this in scripture. God called Saul to lead Israel. But he said, if this person you want a king, you got one, but this is what's going to happen. And then Saul still had a choice to either do it or not. He went the way he went, and of course his kingdom fell. So it could be the same thing when it comes to these pastors.

Princess (37:26.967)
This is what's gonna happen, right.

Princess (37:33.571)
Mm-hmm.

Kevin (37:36.128)
You in this position, God says, this is like you just said, this is the program I want run. No, you're too busy trying to have an agenda and build up and compete. And maybe God's plan all along was for your church to have 50 members. Maybe no more than 50. Maybe your job was never to be a mega church pastor, but your aspirations superseded what God called you to be. So now you're wondering, you're screw scrambling. Now I'm trying to scratch with straws and pull out all kinds of programs that I got to save because you and I've seen it.

Princess (37:41.593)
Mm-hmm.

Princess (37:49.507)
Right.

Princess (37:57.603)
Mm-hmm.

Kevin (38:05.921)
The saddest thing to me is that church that's dead and no one in the church knows it. If I'm just keeping it real, if you've been a pastor for 10 years and you started with five members, and you still got five members, that is not a God problem. That is not a God problem. That's you. You either a disobedient or b disobedient.

Princess (38:05.988)
Yeah.

Princess (38:10.787)
Right.

Right.

Mm-hmm.

Kevin (38:32.513)
God didn't call you to be in that pr it's something on your end. And I think t to your point as well about people looking for all these different churches, it's because we don't push the agenda, the idea of growth as a Christian being a re a a requirement. So this let me contemporarize and put it into on my level because you notice as well. The church we both left in the versus the church we go to now. Now you said it well. It just happens to be a church of a different

Most mostly a different demographic, different race. But what attracted both of us was not that, the fact is, man, there's meat here, there's substance here, there's something where I can grow in here. I miss this to you offline. It's stuff that I've taught as a pastor here, that I could never teach at our previous church. Because either the the the powers that be wouldn't let me, andor the people weren't interested.

Princess (39:10.453)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Princess (39:27.748)
Mm-hmm.

Kevin (39:32.386)
But here, you know this firsthand. They're hungry for this stuff. They're like, we want more classes. We want more knowledge. You would you sat in the classes with me teaching over there? Any we had seven, eight, nine, ten, twelve people in a church that had literal hundreds of people. So it's a like you said, just the the whole idea of the comfortability of just being, we're comfortable being complacent. It's just getting.

Princess (39:35.223)
Mm-hmm.

Princess (39:43.695)
Mm-hmm.

Princess (39:51.609)
Right.

Kevin (40:02.197)
The bare minimum stuff I'm sure.

Princess (40:03.649)
Mm-hmm. I told I totally agree. Could not have said it better. and it's sad that, you know, going back to your your description, your example about having that five, and two, three years later you still have that five. I think that it's sad when we cannot see stagnation as a problem. Because I look at it from a parental pers perspective.

Sometimes with my son, I would give him things, not I would give him things and not give him more, not because I didn't think he was deserving of it, but because I knew that he could not handle more, not that he was doing something wrong with, not that he could not handle the five, but I need you to do more so that if you get more, you can handle them more. In other words, if you have those five members, have those five and do the right thing with the five.

So that now, okay, you're doing the right thing with the five. Now more can be added. But if you have five and you're not doing the right thing with it, it because sometimes it c it may be a situation where it's not necessarily that you don't need to be preaching, but you need to improve with where you are with what you have. Because why would I give you more and allow you to multiply and allow you to grow when you ain't doing the right when you ain't doing what you need to do with who you have? You understand what I mean? And so I think that even goes even for us as parishioners, as

Kevin (41:26.217)
I'll be back.

Princess (41:32.09)
people in the church. If if we are, if we're going to church and the only thing we're getting from the church is great music, you know, you know, I I I saw a couple of my friends. It was fun. It was great. And we're not growing. Not that there's no meat there. The meat is there, but we're not, to your point, we're not saying I want to learn more.

they have a special class. I want to go. I want to go to the Bible studies. I want to go to Sunday school. I want to go to these additional classes. I want growth. I want growth. Because sometimes the growth, the opportunity for growth is there, but we do not take the opportunity to grow because we're so comfortable with where we are and we don't see the need for the growth. How can you how as as a person who who is if you're if you're growing and you're trying to do better?

But you don't see you don't see that the shoes too small. You don't see that you've outgrown these shoes. Your feet hurting. You got blisters. You don't see that at some point you need to say, you know what? I need to take this off and get something bigger, do something better, go higher, because right now this is not fitting me. Why would I look like a grown woman, a grown person still wearing kindergarten clothes? It d it don't fit you. It don't look right. You need to grow with where you are. So sometimes I think

Because we don't have a desire to grow, we stay stagnant, not necessarily because the place that we're in doesn't have good meat, but because we don't take advantage of the meat that is there and we don't want more and we're comfortable with where we are. And that's the sad part on both half.

Kevin (43:16.311)
So I and you're absolutely right. I love that. So now let's let's think solution driven. What can we do? How can we, what can we do? If anything, is there anything we can do? Is it strictly just, you know what? People just don't want it. And you know what? You can you can you can, you know, churches, I'm gonna have one now. You can put out the axe, you can tell from the pulpit, all right, y'all, we got Bible study. All right, we got this ministry. Okay, we need you to serve, we need you to do this.

Princess (43:21.656)
Mm-hmm.

Kevin (43:44.244)
And you and I both know you can do it to the cows come home and crickets and tumbleweeds. What can we do or is there anything we can do to to encourage people to want more? To encourage people to strive to go to that Bible study or or to study more? What is there anything we can do to help that?

Princess (44:03.587)
I think like I said before, it's layers to this thing, so it's no one solution. I think that ultimately, you know, we have to depend on we have to depend on God. Like God, our people are stuck. What are we gonna we need to pray about it and we need to to seek the solution from him so that he can tell us this is what needs to be done. But then we need to be willing to do that because sometimes, you know.

Kevin (44:08.535)
No, yeah.

Princess (44:33.091)
God may say, I need you to go and speak to this person. I may need you to do this. Or I may need you to multiply by diminishing, by dividing. God may say, Y'all got too many programs. I need you to to scale back. So there comes the the the fear aspect. Ooh, do we really want to scale back? Listen, you're gonna listen to God or not. You went to him to ask him for a solution. He says you need to scale back. Then that means you need to scale back. but that may rub some people the wrong way. If I close this ministry, sister so-and-so is over this ministry, brother so-and-so is over this ministry. I don't wanna make them upset.

Kevin (44:40.277)
Yeah.

Princess (45:02.221)
you know, there are the biggest tithers in our church. The fear factor says in, but God may be saying that is the very ministry that needs to be shut down because maybe people have too many options or not enough or whatever. So I'm just saying that's one one area. And then I also think that we we just need to be honest with people. I just think that we time for the play play, you know, the the feel good type of sermons and all that, we

Need to be serious about what the word says. We need to be serious about our salvation. We need to be serious about righteousness and the way that God tells us to do things because I think that it's it's a disservice when we don't tell people the truth, the hard, honest truth. Now, what they do with that is ultimately up to them.

But when it's all said and done, they won't be able to say, I didn't know. And we need to make sure that people really, really, truly understand what that word says and not the fluff and not the I didn't know. And no, no, no. This is what it says, and we need to adhere to it. What you do after that is on you, but this is what it says. So I think that's that's a a layer as well. Just being honest with people.

Kevin (46:21.089)
I think that's the the key right there, the honesty and just being up front and being because when I think about other religions and other faiths, there's no placating with them. There's no there's no watering down. you know, like for example, if you talk if you look at Jehovah's Witnesses, their young people are sitting right next to their parents in service. They don't they don't water it down for the l the young people.

Princess (46:33.738)
Nein.

Right.

Kevin (46:50.699)
Not saying there's something wrong with that. You an educator, but you get my point. They're indoctrinating them from the very beginning. This is true. You look at our Jewish brothers and sisters. They grow up from the cradle. This is what we believe as in Judaism. Other faiths are very specific and determined and very targeted in making sure that their young people from here know the truth about their faith. With us, we are the ones.

Princess (46:53.017)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Princess (47:00.994)
Uh-huh.

Princess (47:05.241)
Yes. Right.

Princess (47:11.075)
Mm-hmm.

Kevin (47:18.177)
That say we have the truth, but we're the ones that's the least likely to share it and to tell it and to live by it. I think that is also a big factor because again, what are the what are the expectations for Christians? We paint the picture a Christian, just somebody who just believed in Jesus. That's it. If you believe that Jesus was a real person, you believe he died, and I hate to say this, but I'm gonna use it for the example, died on a cross for my sins, then that's all.

Princess (47:36.867)
Let's say

Princess (47:44.175)
Mm-hmm. I see it.

Kevin (47:47.094)
Nothing else is required of me. When it's totally the opposite. If you believe in Christ, your life belongs to him. If he is actually Lord, guess what? You do exactly what he says. You don't have a say in this. And I think what happens is, like you're saying, like what I'm saying, is that this level of perception of freedom that long as I believe, I said this prayer when I was 15 in summer camp, so now I'm good.

Princess (47:56.057)
Period.

Kevin (48:14.623)
Until Jesus will come, and now I just wait for the next blessing. so the the expectation isn't set. And the reality, like you said, in being a Christian is facing the harsh truth that guess what? As long as you're on the side of heaven, it's gonna get rough, folks. It's not gonna be easy. Now, God's gonna be with you. He will never leave you nor forsake you. We like to quote that scripture, but he says, In this life you will have tribulation, but be of good cheer. I have overcome the world.

Princess (48:43.331)
Hmm.

Kevin (48:43.767)
But see, those are the scriptures we don't share. We don't share the part about it's gonna be the head, not the tail, the wind and not the bar, you know, cup, you know, running over, shake it down, press together, run it over, running over, write the vision, make it plain, all those scriptures out of context. I mean, starting out. But but you get it, those are the things we share. But then we don't share the reality that we call to be witnesses for Christ. And that's something we don't tell.

Princess (48:53.751)
Take it down, press together, right?

Princess (48:59.852)
Out of context.

Princess (49:04.142)
Mm-hmm.

Princess (49:13.015)
And I think, you know, one of the things that I try to share with with my my circle of friends, my girlfriends, you know, and other people as well, if you have not if you have not felt uncomfortable, you doing something wrong. If you have not felt like

Lord, this is hard. Like, I'm uncomfortable. I don't really want to do this. If you don't feel that tug of nah no God is expecting more of me, I know I need to do better. if the Holy Spirit is not convicting you and you don't feel that, you know, you don't feel something within you that says, something needs to change. I'm doing something wrong. I need to grow in this area. I'm not doing what I need to do. If you're selling through life and you feel like you're smelling all the roses and

just everything is peaches and cream, then you are doing it wrong. You're not doing something right. We have to be at a point, we have to grow to the point in our maturity that it's okay for us to be chastised. It's okay for us to feel like we need help in this area. It's okay. The word tell we need to go and say Lord I need you to help me. And I can't do this on my own.

This forgiveness thing, I've tried it. This anger thing, I've tried it. I can't do this on my own. I need your help. Lord, I know I was wrong. Help me go and beg forgiveness. Help me be better. If we're not, if we are not to the point of knowing that there are areas that we need to grow and then being mature enough to actually walk in that direction knowing it's gonna be hard, then we're doing something wrong. And if we are attending,

A church or if we're under a pastor that does not challenge us or does not place that reality in our brain, like to make us think like, okay, you shouldn't be selling through. If we're going to a church and every time we leave out of the church, we feel good and we don't feel like like black folks say, my toes been stepped on. If you can leave and you can feel good every Sunday and everything is peaches and cream, you're doing it wrong. You're doing it wrong.

Kevin (51:28.845)
see, now you now you said something right there. You definitely said something there. And I think, you know, to take it a step further, we're talking about maturity, not only when you're convicted because when you do something wrong, but it hurts you when you see other people do it. Like that's the maturity. Now, granted, you know, you're not saying you're better, but the Bible does say explicitly, I don't remember exact scripture, but it says

Princess (51:45.645)
Yes, yes.

Princess (51:51.204)
Right.

Kevin (51:55.608)
That you and I are supposed to judge those who are in the church who are sinning. So we should not sit eyeball because like you said, I'm growing because man, this anger thing, this unforgiveness thing, this bugs me. Lord, help me. But if I see my sister doing this kind of stuff, if she's dealing with anger and unforgiveness, I need to be able to say, Lord, I'm praying for her too. Because I'm not just being like, well, you know what? I hope, I hope she's all right.

Princess (52:19.907)
Yes.

Princess (52:24.111)
That's on you.

Kevin (52:24.533)
You know what, I'm I'm gonna just pray and it, you know. No, if that's your brother, your sister, especially if it's not even just a struggle, let's go here. If you see them in out and out rebellion.

Princess (52:35.023)
Mmm, wow.

Kevin (52:36.759)
Can you pull that person to the side? Abra, sis, you know, here's the word. Isn't he right? Because the Bible also talks about maturity, right? Bible also talks about church discipline. What does it say? If you do wrong, you confront the brother or sister. If it continues, you get two or three more. If it continues, then you get the elders in the church. If it continues, guess what? You gotta go. We gotta go. But see, these are things that

Princess (52:44.631)
Mm-hmm.

Princess (52:50.497)
Mm.

Princess (52:55.747)
Ripe more.

Yes. You got to go.

Kevin (53:06.807)
part of maturing that it's not just you. The Bible says put the concerns of others above yourself. So yeah, so if you see that person, you know, dealing with something, and especially if you've done dealt with it, if you have experience with it, God is not putting you in that person's life just to pray. It's to say, hey, I've been here. Let me put my arm around, hey, you know what? I know what you're going through. Let's do lunch. Let's rap. You, my brother, you must sit man, let's let's talk about it. You know what?

Princess (53:20.175)
Mm.

Princess (53:32.644)
Right.

Kevin (53:35.615)
I've been there before. Let me tell you how the Lord got me to forgive this person. Let me tell you how the Lord got me to deal with my anger or anxiety. Instead of us walking around in a Christian cocoon thinking God saved me, I'm good.

Princess (53:38.585)
Mm-hmm.

Princess (53:45.655)
Mm.

Princess (53:51.884)
Right, right. So so tell me about tell me about being on the opposite side. Tell me about that Christian who if somebody does come to you and say, Hey, d you need correction in this area, tell me something about just being on the opposite side of receiving that correction from another brother or sister.

Kevin (54:11.117)
Well, I think well in terms of how the person should receive it, or just well, I think this is why it goes into maturity. Because maturity means means you have to understand to your point earlier that you're not a finished product. So if you're going into it, so you had a minister, you understand you're not a finished product. And two, there should be a little humility to be able to take the constructive criticism because it's coming from someone you love. But now let me put it on the person.

Princess (54:15.683)
Mm-hmm.

Princess (54:19.594)
Exactly.

Kevin (54:39.723)
The person who gives the criticism has to do it correctly too. You can't come guns blazing, Kevin, you wrong, Kevin, you wrong. You got to do it in love. You got to let them see, first of all, I know you're struggling in this area. You had a misstep, but guess what? I've done it too. So this is why I can tell you, hey, I've been there, but let me tell you, God restored me. You need him to restore you.

Princess (54:42.68)
And the

Kevin (55:05.377)
So it it really comes again to the whole maturity part. Are you mature enough on both fronts? Are you mature enough to give the criticism? But just because you're the giver of the criticism doesn't mean you're absolved from receiving it. Me being a pastor, guess what? Anybody who's a Christian can check me. I'm not above criticism. You know, I know that first hand because somebody's done it before. But you know, I'd have got I done got some whoopings, you know, I done got some whoopings. Hey.

I a equal opportunity. I've dished him out and I've received him.

Princess (55:39.853)
You certainly dished them out. Let me say that. You have certainly dished them out. Yes. Right.

Kevin (55:42.702)
But I received them, but but guess what? They were it was it was needed because it was out of love. So as a Christian, again, the whole thing about maturity, understanding that we're all works in progress, we're striving for protection, we're striving for that idea of being reconciled fully back to God. So on that journey, we're gonna mess up, we're gonna fall short. So are you can you be humble enough? I think I did one of my rants. Can you be corrected as a Christian?

That's key. And the answer for all of us should be yes.

Princess (56:17.517)
Yes. Now I notice your podcast and all, but I got a couple of questions. So as a pastor I notice your podcast, but I got some questions. So what if w how would you

Kevin (56:22.335)
It comes okay.

Okay.

Princess (56:30.671)
How far should a parishioner go if, like if I'm sitting in a church, I'm a member of a church, and I see something that is incorrect with leadership, how far should I go? Should I say something to him? Should I, what what is it that I should do as a member of the church if I see some missteps with leadership, including the senior pastor of the church?

Kevin (56:41.271)
Easy, okay.

Kevin (56:57.377)
Well, let me say this, and this is going to be a very unpopular response for my fellow pastors. Most churches give pastors way more power than they really have.

Princess (57:07.959)
Hmm. Wow.

Kevin (57:10.145)
We are leaders of the church. We're shepherds, but ultimately our position is such that we're not so high above that there should be trepidation if you come to me. I just said a couple of minutes ago, I'm not above being criticized, neither is the pastor. He just has a role that God has assigned him to. But if Pastor Joe was seen at a strip club, guess what? You need to be able to go to Pastor Joe and not because he's Pastor Joe, because at that moment, he ain't Pastor Joe, he's Joe.

And Joe is at the strip club. Now, Joe happens to be a pastor, which means that that that issue is even more exacerbated because of his role, but he's not above criticism. So the short answer should should be ideally, you should be able go to him. Now, again, with any person, love, respect, but more importantly, scripture. You gotta have a script because you don't want to make it seem as if this is what I think you did wrong, versus here's.

Princess (57:41.39)
Mm.

Princess (57:49.359)
Mm-hmm.

Kevin (58:09.953)
the scripture that shows cause this is the arbiter of what right or wrong is not my opinion. And then you say love in love. This is what you should the so that's the answer. You should be able to go to him clearly now if he doesn't receive it.

Princess (58:23.822)
Mm.

Kevin (58:25.631)
Now you got a bigger question. The bigger question is, do you continue to go to a church? Because at that point, you have to question, I'm gonna keep it 100. You got to question that person is really consulting the Holy Spirit. Because I just said all of us, regardless of role, should be teachable, should be able to be corrected. And the pastor is no difference. So if he can't be corrected.

That says a lot about him. And then you gotta ask yourself, is this person I want I want to process?

Princess (58:59.823)
Hmm. Wow, that's good. That's that's good. Okay, I'll turn it back over to you. That was my question. This is your your show and all. I I'll turn it back over to you.

Kevin (59:06.669)
hey, d we you know how I do. We flowing. You sound you sound like you had another you sound like you had another question.

Princess (59:15.321)
No no no no that w that that was that was good. That that was that was good. That was really good. Yeah.

Kevin (59:21.165)
Okay, all right. Cause you see like you had another one loaded up ready. Cause like you had like quite a few. Like question number one. Question number two.

Princess (59:25.177)
No please.

You already know back in this head it's all kinda stuff brewing, but no that

Kevin (59:33.258)
Exactly. Okay. You ain't gotta hesitate. You can ask. It's not a problem. Okay. Okay. So, all right. So I want to ask this last question. We'll go ahead. We're right up at a good time. So I want to end it here. This was great and we're definitely going to do this again. So what are some things? I asked I did a previous episode with our guy, our my mentor, Pastor Robinson. And I asked him the question, what are some things you think Christians need to do?

Princess (59:38.349)
No, no, no, that that that was good. That was good. Yeah.

Kevin (01:00:03.221)
In order to mature. So I ask that to you. Because being someone who obviously is not a pastor, but you you're you're a mature Christian. What are some things you think? If if we if if if if if I gave you a a young lady to mentor and I said, I want you to grow this young lady as a Christian, what are some things you would tell her that she needs to do to mature?

Princess (01:00:25.229)
I think, you know, what we've been talking about, you know, for the past hour or so is just being open to criticism. You know, having a a part of maturity is being able to say, I don't do everything right. And there are some areas that I can improve on. For all of us, no one has, no one will ever reach that pinnacle that I am 100% A1A perfect.

Until Jesus comes back. So we all can stand correction here, there, or wherever. So just being open to a person speaking into you, knowing that they're speaking to you, knowing that they're speaking into you out of love, that's number one. And I think also giving yourself grace over time. I think that sometimes we are so hard on ourselves, and then the enemy can use that against us because we see where.

There's a misstep here, or there's this this proclivity that I have that I haven't yet gotten over, or there's this issue with forgiveness with this particular person. And I'm trying to forgive them, but when I see them, I'm I still feel kind of ugh on the inside. And it's like, maybe I'm not a Christian. Maybe I'm not doing what God wants me to do. Maybe I'm not this, maybe I'm not that, because we're not allowing ourselves grace and time to get through that situation. So I think a part of maturity is just saying that, you know.

Knowing what you're supposed to do, being open to correction, but then just giving yourself time to walk that thing out, giving giving God an opportunity to kind of make those one degree shifts here and there. And before you know it, you'll look up and then you're a totally different person. Also

You know, sometimes we just have to do the thing. Sometimes we just have to do the thing. And what I mean by that is most of us know in our heart where we're falling short. I'm not reading my word enough. I'm not spending time in prayer enough. I'm not going to church as often as I should be. I'm not, you know, I'm not sharing my testimony. I'm not evangelizing as as much as I should be. We know those personal areas that we can improve on. So just do it.

Princess (01:02:37.793)
It doesn't have to be anything fancy and dressed up. It doesn't have to be anything, you know, a three-point plan and bullets and all of that. Just do the one thing. If you know that you are not reading your Bible as often as you should, make it. Don't say, I'm gonna get up tomorrow and I'm gonna read. No, because you know when you get up tomorrow, it's gonna be the same routine. If you have that thought in your head, you know what, I'm not reading my Bible as much as I should, grab your phone, open up your Bible app, and read a verse. You know?

Kevin (01:03:06.839)
Mm.

Princess (01:03:07.693)
Do it at that time. If you know that you're not praying for people as much as you should, somebody comes across your mind and you say, you know what, I should pray for that person. Don't should just do it right then and there. You know, so just do the thing. We know we're supposed to do, just do it. So I would say to that young lady, just to be honest with herself, do those things that the Holy Spirit has already, the Holy Spirit who lives in her has already shared with her what she needs to do.

Kevin (01:03:15.125)
We're writing.

Princess (01:03:36.525)
Start there in being open to criticism that's coming from a place of love. So that's what I would say.

Kevin (01:03:45.016)
Mm. Love it. Love it. Awesome. Awesome. I mean, I mean the only thing I would say, and you covered it all, and I can say there's a a larger list of things you can do to become true, but you summed it up great. I think one one thing I would add, keep talking to God.

Princess (01:04:06.678)
yes. Mm-hmm.

Kevin (01:04:08.683)
Whatever you do, don't stop talking to them. Don't don't get to a point where you feel like I've grown as such or I fought, whatever you whatever extreme you get to. Well, I'm at this high and I'm just growing exponentially, or I'm at this low and I feel like I ain't gonna make it. Don't stop talking to God. So that's what's gonna get you through the relationship. They could be, I think I want I would impress upon them this is a living, breathing, vibrant relation. It's not just

You doing God's bidding, or you're trying to earn brownie points to get into heaven. No, he loves you. Like you said, the Holy Spirit lives in you. There's a relationship there. He is intimately involved in your day-to-day. He he genuinely cares. I I mentioned this to you before. I mentioned this to one of the groups that I teach here, is that I had a conversation with the Holy Spirit one day, and it made me almost brought me to tears, happy tears, when he said to me.

He said, I enjoy spending time with you. Like, what? You know, like that blew my mind. But it's so it was so powerful. And it who doesn't want to talk to a guy who says, I want to be with you. And he does. And I think sometimes we get caught up in the doing, which is important. We forget about the being. Just be in his presence. Tell him, tell him about your day. Because one of the things I talk to people a lot, young people and stuff.

Princess (01:05:12.783)
Yeah.

Princess (01:05:20.515)
Yes. Right.

Mm.

Princess (01:05:28.817)
yeah. Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Kevin (01:05:36.567)
They always feel like, you know, it's too. I will pray, but I ain't got nothing to say.

Are you crazy? You got a million things to talk to God about. And guess what? He wants to hear them all. This is what the beautiful thing God. See, now you got me preaching. The beautiful thing about God is he knows it already and still wants to hear it.

Princess (01:05:45.081)
Right. Million things to say, yeah.

Princess (01:05:59.182)
Right. yes, yes.

Kevin (01:06:01.645)
Cause let's let's keep it 100. You and I both been in places when somebody told us what we already do, and you had to be like, okay. He had to smile and in your mind, like, this is the third time you done told me this story. You know, you know what I mean? So with God, he already knows. He's a simple, really tell me more. He wants to know. He had he wants to hear from you. So there's never a moment, regardless of how how how high, how low, how dark, how light things are, keep talking.

Princess (01:06:12.609)
Right, right. Right.

Princess (01:06:17.785)
Show me more. Right.

Princess (01:06:33.495)
And you know what? It reminds me of, you know, I'm going to go back to this whole parenting thing. When I used to pick my son up from school, every day I want to know how was your day. Every day, every day. I know you go to the same classes, you have the same teachers, it's the same subject, it's the same. I get it. But I am going to want to know every day. Talk to me. How was your day? What did you do in school today? What did you eat for lunch? What was your favorite subject?

What did you love about your day? Who did you talk to today? Who did you eat? Like, I want to know. And even if you tell me the same thing every day, I still want to hear it every day. Imagine if a husband and a wife got got to a point where we've been married for 20 years, but I said everything I had to say in the first 10 years. So I ain't gonna say nothing else. I ain't gonna say nothing new in the second 10 because we already covered that in the first 10.

I already know enough about you. I know everything about you. It took 10 took me 10 years to learn everything about you. I know everything about you, so I'm done. And for the next 10 years, I'm just I'm just cruising. Are you crazy? Absolutely not. Absolutely not. We and you and I have talked about it before where we'll open the word and we'll see a verse that we have read a thousand times. But on that thousand and first time,

It's like you're just opened up to something that you're like, wow, I didn't even see this coming. So I think that having that relationship and in your maturity, you get to the point that you know that I could never talk to God enough and I want to talk to him even more.

Kevin (01:08:13.003)
Yeah. And and it has and I like what you said there too in the in in how you preference it earlier. Just do the thing. Just talk. Like you don't have to have a pre-rehearsed speech. You don't have to have this grandiose, you know, soliloquy. Just talk. Like through the course of the day, you know how many times I say help me, Lord, in a spin of a day? Some that sometimes that's all you could but guess, but guess what? I'm keeping the lines of communication open. I'm talking to him.

Princess (01:08:23.503)
Right.

Princess (01:08:27.705)
Mm-hmm. So

Princess (01:08:33.133)
Yes, yes, yes.

Kevin (01:08:42.007)
Throughout the day. Sometimes all I can must is a help me, Jesus. But still I'm talking to him. So I like we

Princess (01:08:47.927)
Right. And mine is, mine throughout the day is, God, you see this? You know, that is mine. Like I'll be going through and I'll be like, Lord, do you see this? What I'm seeing? And then sometimes I will be corrected. Sometimes I would be, he was Holy Spirit will speak to me and I would look at that thing differently because I'm like, Lord, do you see what I'm seeing? And he will sometimes convict me and say, uh-uh-uh-uh. Or, you know, it just it's just different, different things just depend on the situation.

Kevin (01:08:53.409)
Mm-hmm.

Kevin (01:09:15.333)
Mm.

Princess (01:09:17.795)
But that's my go to. Like, do you see what I'm saying? Like, Lord, do you see this? You know, 'cause it's that open line of communication as you were saying.

Kevin (01:09:24.779)
No. That's the key. Okay. All right. All right. Well, we will end it there. This was such a good. Yeah, we could. We could. And then we're gonna do this again. You know, we w so I don't know. No, I'm gonna I'm on this series now with Christian maturity. Gonna have a couple more guests, but we're gonna have have the good doctor back on again, as we as we wrap about some other things in the future. So but thank you guys. Thank you so much, sis, for coming on and blessing us.

Princess (01:09:26.786)
Yeah.

Princess (01:09:31.767)
I know 'cause we could we could be talking we could be sitting here talking for a whole nother hour.

Princess (01:09:48.665)
This was funny. Yes.

Princess (01:09:54.095)
You're welcome. I enjoyed it.

Kevin (01:09:54.989)
It was a great, great discussion. Hope you guys were blessed watching and listening. And just keep tuning. Again, this is the this is probably, I want to say this is probably the second episode of the series. so just keep tuning. We got more episodes and more guests coming up soon. But thank you for watching and listening. As always, I pray this episode bless you and may your light shine brightest for the Lord Jesus Christ beyond the benedictions. Until next time, be blessed.